He Can See the Truth
Man (1): Each of us have come here tonight sort of looking for a bit of a miracle or a bit of a statement that can stamp us, to hold us, to illuminate us. (devotees laugh) Now, you travel in a spirit. Can you tell us the wonderful feeling of enlightenment to enter this spirit? We don't know how to exactly enter this spirit and travel as you travel.

Prabhupāda: That I am distributing. You chant at home, Hare Kṛṣṇa, Hare Kṛṣṇa, Kṛṣṇa Kṛṣṇa, Hare Hare, and see the result. (laughter) It is not difficult. If there is no expenditure, there is no loss, if you chant Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra, and you see the result at home. You haven't got to travel. You sit down at your home and chant Hare Kṛṣṇa.

Man (1): The word travel... Illumination. Each of us wants to know that beautiful, glorious feeling and how we gain it.

Prabhupāda: That glorious... First of all we must know what we are. The mistake is that we are accepting this body as ourself. I am thinking Indian, you are thinking Australian, he is thinking American, he is thinking Mohammedan, he is thinking Hindu. In this way, because we are thinking different way, we have got difference of opinion. But as soon as we come to the spiritual platform, there will be no more different opinion. That we are trying, that come to the spiritual platform. Then everything will go on. The first lesson of coming to the spiritual platform is to understand that "I am not this body." This the first lesson of spiritual understanding.

Man (2): I've read about Hubbard's Scientology and a lot of the writings that Hubbard writes sound a lot like the theory of Hare Kṛṣṇa. Is there any parallel at all between the two, or have you taken any opinion on side... both your cases? You know anything about that?

Devotee: He is saying is there any similarities between the philosophy of Scientology...

Prabhupāda: What is that Scientology? I do not know. (laughter, applause) I do not know. Can you explain what is this Scientology?

Man (2): It's just a teaching that's supposed to be fairly widespread. (laughter)

Devotee: Yes?

Man (3): Can you give any explanation about the spiritual, around the earth. If they are all luminous?

Devotee: He wants to know something about psychic phenomena.

Prabhupāda: Psychic phenomena is the subtle materialism. There are two material conditions: one gross condition, one subtle condition. Gross condition is created by the five elements—earth, water, fire, air, and ether. And the subtle elements are mind, intelligence and ego, false ego. So all these eight elements, they are material. One section is gross, and another section is subtle. So the psychology means the subtle material elements. It is material; it is not spiritual. It is subtle.

Man (4): At rebirth do we all return as a male if the previous existence was a male, or do we change. (laughter)

Devotee: He is asking when you take birth again do you take birth as the same sex or do you change your sex?

Prabhupāda: No, no. Just like you change your body, you change your shirts, it is not necessary that you will get the same type of shirt. No. That you... Just like if your present shirt, you want to change, and you go to the store and you purchase another shirt and coat, that will depend on your choice and the price you can pay. It is not necessarily that you will get the same type of shirt and coat. Therefore, when we change our body, there is no guarantee that we get the same type of body. A male can get a female body. There are many instances like that. And a female can get the male body. A man can get animal body, like that. So in the Bhagavad-gītā it is said dehāntara-prāptiḥ (BG 2.13), change of body. But what kind of body you are going to change, that will depend on your own work.

Man (5): Is this your last body? If so, how do you know? (laughter)

Prabhupāda: What is that?

Devotee: He is asking you if this is your last body.

Prabhupāda: I think so. (laughter) Not only I, all of my disciples. They are going to... Because we are not speaking nonsense. This is there in the Bhagavad-gītā. Tyaktvā dehaṁ punar janma naiti mām eti kaunteya (BG 4.9). Janma karma me divyaṁ yo jānāti tattvataḥ. Any one who understands Kṛṣṇa factually, the result is tyaktvā deham, giving up this body, he never accepts again material body. He goes back to home, back to Godhead. Therefore, because we are trying to understand Kṛṣṇa, and if by Kṛṣṇa's grace we can understand Him, then we are not again going to accept any material body. That's a fact.

Man (6): I have some sympathy for you, sir, but I think that tonight you have been postulating the old concept that most of our established religions have thrown out, that is that the reward for the miseries of this life lie in the transmigration of one's soul. But...

Prabhupāda: Yes. That is actual misery.

Man (7): But, but but... In the West, our theologies have taught us that we no longer believe in heaven, we no longer believe in hell, we no longer believe in a soul. So I think that if you want to generate some sympathy, you had better change your tack. (laughter)

Prabhupāda: No, I... If you do not believe, that does not mean the things become null and void. That is not a fact. Suppose a thief does not believe in the prison house. That does not mean the prisonhouse will be closed. A thief may think like that. That is another thing. But the prisonhouse will continue, and as soon as you commit theft, you will be put there. That's all.

Man (6): I think that there is no point in answering a question with a parable. In point of fact, the things you've been postulating tonight is a denial of observable truth.

Devotee: Of what truth?

Devotee (2): Observable truth.

Prabhupāda: Yes. It is truth. (laughter) Anyone who has got eyes to see, he can see the truth.

(Srila Prabhupada Lecture, Auckland, February 21, 1973)
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