(Click to enlarge photo of Srila Prabhupada)
Dr. Ware: I often used to say to my students that I've got to remember that if anything in life to realize the difference between simple and complicated, which is objective, and easy and difficult, which is subjective. In other words, sometimes a simple thing may be terribly difficult for a person to get hold of, whereas complicated things people find quite easy.
Prabhupāda: So your student has to follow your instruction. That means accepts authority.
Dr. Ware: But even so, even if he's working something out for himself, it has that same..., to some people it comes terribly easily.
Prabhupāda: No. No. To accept authority does not mean one should be blind. But the real source of knowledge comes from authority.
Dr. Ware: You then reject the idea of a fear of God.
Prabhupāda: No, I don't reject. The thing is that perfect knowledge is received from the authority which..., beyond the material defects.
Dr. Ware: No, what I mean is, fear is not necessary for learning from an authoritarian source.
Prabhupāda: No, authority must be perfect. Then otherwise the knowledge is not perfect.
Devotee: He's saying that you don't need to necessarily have to fear the authority before you accept him.
Prabhupāda: There's no question of fearing. There's no question of fearing.
Dr. Ware: That's what I thought. You don't acce... That doesn't come in at all.
Prabhupāda: No. No. It is out of love, out of affection, the reciprocation.
Dr. Ware: Well, that's what I think very often, that it is fear that prevents people from accepting.
Prabhupāda: No. No. Why?
Mensa Member: That's true.
Devotee: He said that sometimes someone may fear authority. That prevents them.
Prabhupāda: Of course, when you accept the... That is not fear; that is obedience, respect. Respect. That's not fear. Just like my students—they are not fearful of me. Because I came from India, so what business they have got to be afraid of me? Neither I'm very..., a greater man, but they receive the philosophy, they understand the philosophy; therefore they have got respect for me. The teacher should be offered the due respect. That is not fear. That is not out of fear; it's out of love.
Dr. Ware: I was saying that fear prevents it.
Prabhupāda: No. There's no prevention. There's no fear, because they are quite at liberty to ask me question, and they're asking and the answer is there. I receive so many letters daily. So there's no... They are not afraid of me. But, out of affection, they offer respect.
Dr. Ware: May I make one strange statement that I think it is rather true of the present world? People are always afraid of fear and love. It's almost as though it's something rather sissy or, you know, to get so mixed up with sentimentality.
Mensa Member: I don't know what it is rather than fear.
Dr. Ware: Well, I mean... If you don't know... If I were afraid of you because of absolute knowledge or...
Mensa Member: Yah.
Dr. Ware: ...terrified of the unknown.
Mensa Member: That's very true. That's why... (indistinct) children and such.. (indistinct) like the Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement who not only profess (indistinct) scare into lots of people.
Prabhupāda: Just like the child is afraid of the father. There is affection. "My father is displeased if I do... Father has said, 'Don't touch this,' so I don't touch. My father has..." So that fear and affection, both is there. It is not simply that he is afraid of his father, but the affection is there. So to become obedient to the authority, there is a tinge of fear also, but that is based on affection. That is not actually...
Devotee: They were saying also that in this age, particularly now, there is a great fear of loving someone or something on the part of the large population. They think that by...
Prabhupāda: There is no real love. There is expectation of being frustrated in love.
Dr. Ware: Rebuffed.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Rebuffed. So therefore they're...
Dr. Ware: Terrified, actually.
Prabhupāda: So because everything in this material world is perverted reflection, therefore we sometimes love somebody and we become frustrated. So therefore others see that "This man has loved that girl and he's now frustrated. Oh, why shall I love?" That is due to frustration. But there is a perfectional stage. There is a perfectional stage; therefore we say it is perverted reflection. Just like our Rādhā-Kṛṣṇa—that is the perfectional stage of love.
Rādhārāṇī is a young girl and Kṛṣṇa is a young boy. There is love. So originally this love between young boy and girl is there, but that is in perfect stage. Here, in this material world, the same thing is pervertedly reflected. Therefore it is imperfect. So we have come to the perfectional stage, not be afraid and give it up—frustration. But love is there. But there is a perfectional stage of love. We have to learn that.
Dr. Ware: The Greeks call it agape, as opposed to the old, other form of eros.
Devotee: Yes. Lust and..., eros, lust. Agape is pure love, transcendental love.
Prabhupāda: Yes. There is. This Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement means to bring everything to the perfectional stage. The others, they're, out of frustration, they want to stop all activity. That is voidism—to stop all this activity. Buddha philosophy is more or less based on this voidism: make everything null and void—no more activities, no more love.
We don't say. Just like you cannot see properly because our eyes are diseased. To cure the disease, and then you see properly. And other says, "All right, pluck it out. The disease in the eye, take away." That is not very good proposition. We say that make treatment to make the eyes to see properly. Remedy problem.
Our proposition is, sarvopādhi vinirmuktaṁ tat-paratvena... We simply cleanse the process. The seeing process we cleanse. We don't pluck out the eyes out of frustration: don't see; make everything void. No. We don't say that, because there is no void; it is simply frustration. There is variety, nice variety, spiritual variety. We are bringing people to that position.
Dr. Ware: I must say that's very interesting.
(Srila Prabhupada Conversation with Dr. Ware of the Mensa Society, London, September 5, 1971)